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Dreaded rectifier

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Dreaded rectifier

Post  Simon on Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:42 pm

I have a original rectifier on my falcon 1953 it also had a solid state rectifier attached however after removing the old wiring loom and replacing with the new loom I would be gratefull if anyone on here could advise what wires go where the bike is still 6v pos earth, the solid state rectifier has 2 ac points 1 pos 1 neg
Thanks in advance.
Simon
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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  Druid on Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:44 pm

Hi Simon
Referring to my circa 1952 Villiers wiring diagram for a Rectifier Lighting Set Mark 6E
if you wish to use the later solid state bridge rectifier, connect s follows:
1. Wire from magneto generator (colour not shown on my diagram) to one of a.c. terminals of rectifier. 2. wire from terminal "1" of lighting switch (purple wire shown on my diagram) to second a.c. terminal. 3. Connect +ve terminal of rectifier to frame/earth.
The -ve terminal of rectifier is not connected but should be insulated. There are actually four diodes in the bridge rectifier but you only use two of these. Note the second a.c. output (purple) is only connected to rectifier when headlamp main beam is selected giving a simple form of charge control.
Regards Dave

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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  John Wakefield on Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:43 pm

Druid wrote:Hi Simon
Referring to my circa 1952  Villiers wiring diagram for a Rectifier Lighting Set Mark 6E
if you wish to use the later solid state bridge rectifier, connect s follows:
1. Wire from magneto generator (colour not shown on my diagram) to one of a.c. terminals of rectifier.  2. wire from terminal "1" of lighting switch (purple wire shown on my diagram) to second a.c. terminal. 3. Connect +ve terminal of rectifier to frame/earth.
The -ve terminal of rectifier is not connected but should be insulated. There are actually four diodes in the bridge rectifier but you only use two of these. Note the second a.c. output (purple) is only connected to rectifier when headlamp main beam is selected giving a simple form of charge control.
Regards Dave

Surely the +ve terminal should go to battery positive and the -ve one to earth unless you want it to be positive earth, then the other way round. In both cases both terminals must be connected.

John Wakefield

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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  Druid on Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:38 am

Hi John
I have assumed that Simon is using a new wiring loom to original wiring system but would like to use the bridge rectifier in place of the old selenium device. The positive output from the rectifier does go to the positive of the battery via the common earth connection. Because, like the original system,we are only using half wave rectification for tha two a.c. outputs from generator only two of the diodes are being used so we do not use the -- ve terminal on rectifier. However, if he is using bridge rectifiers to give full wave rectification on the generator outputs then both d.c. terminals would need to be connected with the polarity to match the battery earthing arrangement.
Regards Dave

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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  Simon on Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:24 am

Hi Dave & John, firstly thank you for your replys to my question 👍🏻 I spoke to Geoff who supplies these retifiers who suggests that the gen wire ( green 2 wires joined together) goes to ac ..... pos to frame earth & purple to ammeter to neg leaving one ac unused. Does this sound about right? I presume that this type of rectifier is bolted straight to the frame if so does it need insulating. When I purchased this bike the original rectifier was fitted and a bridhe rectifier they seem to ha e been joined together? I took photos of every part of the stripdown but seem to have not got pics of the wiring from the original rectifier to the solid state one ..... once again many thanks for your assistance .... Simon.
Simon
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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  John Wakefield on Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:06 am

Dave, sorry to disagree but BOTH DC outputs must be connected other wise there is an open circuit. The aluminium casing is insulated from diode connections and DOES NOT form an earth connection in itself.
That should answer Simon's second query, the casing does not need to be insulated from frame. The AC side connections should work as Dave suggests.

John Wakefield

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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  Simon on Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:36 am

Thank you for your help it's much appreciated ... Simon.
Simon
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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  FBKev on Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:00 pm

Here is a pic of my falcon81 with a bridge rectifier fitted. I didn't fit it myself this is how it came as a non runner. connected a battery and it runs like a watch. The wiring is not standard colours.

Kev.
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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  FB vincent on Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:14 pm

Kev, your wiring looks REALLY non standard. Is that a DC battery powered ignition coil I see? Has the HT ignition coil been modified to provide LT power to the battery via a second rectifier? It looks nothing like the standard Villiers wiring. You may confuse interested readers with traditional wiring circuits as used on 8E and 10E engines so please let us know. Sandy

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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  FBKev on Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:01 am

I havn,t had the flywheel off to check but I assume the ht coil has been modified, It is a lucas 6v dc coil the battery connected to the +coil terminal and the points connected to the -coil terminal. As I said it was bought as a non runner (in the condition in my avatar pic, that was the day I got both bikes & they had just been taken out of the van) so during investigation to see what was what I connected up a battery to what you see there and got a nice big blue spark at the plug, so with some pre mix in a temp container (tank needed to be lined) it fired up second kick with the ammeter showing a charge. Apart from replacing the connectors with some proper crimp types instead of those horrible ones you see I am going to leave that area alone as I can just about get by, but the electrical side of things is a bit of a black art to me! When I get it on the road proper in the spring I will be able to find out a bit more no doubt.
Kev.
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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  John Wakefield on Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:00 am

Have found this previous thread on charging and rectifiers. Seems to cover the subject in great detail so may help.
http://fboc.forumotion.biz/t4924-charging-and-lighting

John Wakefield

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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  Druid on Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:26 am


To help show how the standard 6E charging system works and how to replace an old type selenium rectifier with a bridge rectifier I have added the attached circuit diagram, as they say - a picture is worth a thousand words!  The rectifier blocks show how the internal diodes are arranged and the external connections. The unused diodes of the bridge circuit block current flow so do not short the two a.c. inputs.
Regards Dave

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Re: Dreaded rectifier

Post  John Wakefield on Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:13 pm

Thanks Dave. I stand corrected on the output connections, obviously on the 6E 8E where the coils are earthed the - (neg) terminal does not need a connection. But on the 2T 3T and 4T which have isolated coils both connections are needed.

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Rectifier

Post  kerabo on Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:52 pm

Don't know if this helps.
The pos and neg can be reversed if you want to change the earth ..

Ken

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Re: Dreaded rectifier

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