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External coil mod

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External coil mod

Post  bigpete on Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:01 pm

Ive done this mod and now have no spark! Thatll teach me eh.
I have power up to the coil but just the merest tickle at the ht lead, not even enough to see when earthed.ive checked earth continuity between coil mount and engine and all is good. Tried a new plug , no plug, old plug no difference.
The only thing i can think now maybe wrong is the new coil and condenser, its brand new 6v for a cg125 honda, i was recomended to use Fs1e but the Honda one appeared!
Any thoughts as to what to try please.
Only reason i did it was easier access as its a trials bike
ARRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
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Coil

Post  piston 197 on Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:18 pm

The coil you need to use is a 6Volt AC coil , ie a coil not used with a battery, not familiar with the CG Honda, but is it possible this is a DC coil ? or perhap 12 volt ?

I have always used a vespa 6 Volt AC coil similar to Ebay item No322164125072 without problem and they do come with a long lead which is useful !
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Re: External coil mod

Post  bigpete on Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:21 pm

Cheers John, makes a lot of sense, im sure the honda has a battery.
Thank you for the link and help.
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coils

Post  piston 197 on Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:28 pm

The Honda 50's and Fizzies have a battery as well, but it is only there to work the indicators, parking lights and brake light, the engine runs from a generator with LT coils much like the FB/Villiers and a HT coil, being flywheel powered with alternating poles it is AC ignition, anything with Battery/Alternator ignition will be rectified DC and will not work properly with a generator/ AC system
Also the Villiers system will work on 6 Volt and not 12 Volt, having said that my FB Cruiser 71 has a Lucas alternator grafted onto it and 12 Volt DC electronic ignition, but some serious engineering is required to alter to this !
JH
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Re: External coil mod

Post  John Wakefield on Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:31 pm


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Re: External coil mod

Post  bigpete on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:11 pm

Cheers John good man, thanks for the advice.
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Re: External coil mod

Post  bigpete on Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:12 pm

Well bought a new 6v ac coil fitted it rewired the lot and still nothing!
What concerns me now is the stripped coil behind the flywheel may be putting every thing generated directly to earth , when i checked for it using a multimeter from the stripped coil soldered output to earth it rings out indicating it is earthing. This surely cant be right? As majority of generated power will go to path of least resistance, ie earth.
Any thoughts please as i suspect the generator coil may be humped which is more cost for a cheap mod. I appreciate the coil mounts should be earthed but they ring out to the output as well
Cheers
Peter
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coil mod

Post  piston 197 on Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:31 pm

Pete, i have done this mod many times myself and not had a problem, the way i do it is to remove the Villiers ignition coil, cut it with a knife and peel all of the HT windings off until you get to the thicker LT windings, then wrap in insulation tape. You are now left woth a single wire that goes to the points. I then refit the coil and join a new wire between the coil and the points, ( at either end, or a bared piece in the middle of the exising cable.)
I then connect the new wire to the new AC coil and bolt the coil to the frame.

I have never had any problem doing this with 6E,7E,8E,9E,10E 32-37A or even allen scythe engines and must have done it about 50 times ?/

So not sure what you are doing ? I assume you are refitting the flywheel correctly timed ?

JH
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Re: External coil mod

Post  bigpete on Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:45 pm

Yep thats eaxactly as i did it John. Not sure my self where ive gone wrong. Timing set as per manual, with points opening 5/32 btdc.
With points closed it will ring out okfrom stripped generator coil to new external coil but from the output on the generator coil it will ring to earth with points open or closed which makes me think there may be a short from the heavy copper windings to earth.Thus how im losing generated power, path of least resistance. No visible spark big or small at the points either.
Cheers

Peter
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Re: External coil mod

Post  Druid on Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:28 pm

Hi Pete,
One end of the generator LT winding is connected to earth so if you measure the resistance from the output wire to earth it will always read low (2-4 ohms) even if the points are open. When the points close you should see the resistance drop to about half the value measured with points open. It is not always clear with a standard multimeter because you are operating at the bottom of the ohms range (leads can be 0.5ohm) To check if all is OK with your new external wiring/coil/points disconnect from the generator coil and try operating with a small 6V battery. Although HT coil it is designed for a.c. operation it will cope for a few seconds with the excess current (about 7A) when d.c. is used. With regard to the generator output you could connect your multimeter, set to a.c. current across the coil and see if you get any sign of an output.

Regards
Dave

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Re: External coil mod

Post  bigpete on Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:32 am

Cheers Dave good advice.
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Re: External coil mod

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