Latest topics
» One from every year
Today at 10:40 pm by kerabo

» Speedo drive - Rear wheel
Today at 5:32 pm by piston 197

» American thoughts of a British Bike Cruiser 39.
Today at 5:10 pm by John Wakefield

» NEW CLUB MEMBERS
Today at 10:40 am by piston 197

» Cruiser 39 gear change
Yesterday at 5:16 pm by kerabo

» Re-register Cruiser/Falcon
Yesterday at 1:08 pm by peter@dunfordconstruction

» Cruiser carb
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:51 pm by kerabo

» External coil mod
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:32 am by bigpete

» Key switch for Villiers
Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:32 pm by kerabo


4T Engine Number Prefixes..

Go down

4T Engine Number Prefixes..

Post  fulmar88 on Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:06 pm

I frequently see reference to the Cruiser 89 4T engine number prefix being 687E on this forum and in books etc., however I've noticed that in the list of known bikes I have most of the bikes have a 4T engine number beginning 688E. I've seen this prefix being listed as later than '64 in published literature (and perhaps only for the C91 Sports) but I'd like to challenge that. My bike is a very early 4T C89 frame number FH17105W. I believe the engine is original and begins 688E. The flywheel is stamped Sept '63. Any other owners out there with a 688E on a C89 or 91 from 1964 MY (FH frame number prefix)? And also does anyone have a 687E at-all? I'm slightly OCD and struggle with the fact my bike's numbers shouldn't exist together according to the books, but I'm convinced they should.

Steve.
avatar
fulmar88

Posts : 580
Join date : 2010-03-15
Age : 52

Back to top Go down

engine fitment

Post  piston 197 on Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:31 pm

Glasses check book shows both 687E and 688E 4T engines fitted FB Cruisers
687E ?? to 687E1611 in the cruiser 89 and 91 and 688E ?? to 688E 1611 by sept 64 and frame No HH17271

The owners club register of machines shows 89 fitted with 2T 688E-203 to 688E-1156 in FH frames and 687E-1616 to 687E-1882 in HH frames

There are 91's with both 687E and 668E engines as well

you have to remember this was coming to the end of FB production so if there was an engine lying about it was likely to have been used ??
JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 4218
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Villiers 4T engine prefixes

Post  FB vincent on Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:34 pm

The prefix 726E for the Villiers 4T engine installed in my 1964 Cruiser is not shown in any published listings; the engine is unusually fitted with the high output Villiers generator intended for police work. As is known, each prefix relates to a particular specification.

Sandy

FB vincent

Posts : 671
Join date : 2009-01-20
Location : Hertfordshire

Back to top Go down

engine specs

Post  piston 197 on Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:48 pm

I have a very comprehensive list of Villiers specs, and there are a lot of gaps, unfortunately the full list was lost with the take over of NVT
As you say 726E does not appear in any list, neither does 123B which was a special 175cc engine used in the FB ISDT bikes, basically a 8E with a 30C crank and a specially cast shorter barrel featuring 150 engine port timing and a shorter 59mm piston to suit the 68mm stroke .
JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 4218
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: 4T Engine Number Prefixes..

Post  John Wakefield on Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:53 am

687E is listed in Rob Carricks book Villiers Everybodies Engine as fitted to a Cotton Continental Sports.
727E is not listed, (last was 714E to Bond) so could have been a Bond minicar engine, many 4T's were fitted to the MkG. Does yours have a dynastart?

4T's only appear to have been fitted by FB, Cotton Greeves and RE motorcycles

John Wakefield

Posts : 105
Join date : 2017-08-31

Back to top Go down

Re: 4T Engine Number Prefixes..

Post  FBKev on Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:53 pm

James also made a sport model featuring the 4T engine and the jelly mould tank
Kev.
avatar
FBKev

Posts : 117
Join date : 2018-06-17
Age : 58
Location : SE Kent

Back to top Go down

Re: 4T Engine Number Prefixes..

Post  fulmar88 on Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:01 pm

I should have got all my sources together before writing the opening post but from memory I'm sure that all the books, (Arthur Gent's, Roy Bacon's Villiers Singles and Twins, and Glasses as JH points out above) suggest the 688E is only used in the Cruiser 89 for HH frames onwards. I'm sure that none of them list the 688E with FH (1964) frames. But, as JH states, the list of known machines has many FH Cruiser 89s with 688E engines. Indeed from memory, 688E is stated on the majority of FH framed Cruiser 89s in the list of known machines.

Steve.
avatar
fulmar88

Posts : 580
Join date : 2010-03-15
Age : 52

Back to top Go down

Re: 4T Engine Number Prefixes..

Post  piston 197 on Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:25 pm

John Wakefield wrote:

4T's only appear to have been fitted by FB, Cotton Greeves and RE motorcycles

AND James AND DMW,
687E appears to be a universal spec engine which was fitted to FB,James, and Cotton
Whereas the earlier spec 353E went into Greeves and Cotton and Enfield used the 701E spec
688E appears to have been used by both James and FB
Think Greeves also used the 086F in late spec East coaster
JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 4218
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: 4T Engine Number Prefixes..

Post  John Wakefield on Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:43 am

piston 197 wrote:
Think Greeves also used the 086F in late spec East coaster
JH

Indeed they did John, from June 1965
Have you any record for 353E333 I think maybe a Cotton as Greeves allocations were in the 1000's

John Wakefield

Posts : 105
Join date : 2017-08-31

Back to top Go down

Records

Post  piston 197 on Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:00 pm

John Wakefield wrote:
piston 197 wrote:
Think Greeves also used the 086F in late spec East coaster
JH

Indeed they did John, from June 1965
Have you any record for 353E333 I think maybe a Cotton as Greeves allocations were in the 1000's

There are no actual Villiers envgine records surviving to my KNoledgebut you are wrong in your assumption all Greeves 353E engines were in the thousands ?
glasses check book shows first 25DC Mk2 sports October 64 with frame No 25DC330 and engine 353E 155 ( not in the thousands ?) although by May 65 just 20 frame numbers higher at 25DC350B (East coaster) engine is recorded as 353E 1050

so looks as if Greeves did use engines below the thousands

JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 4218
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: 4T Engine Number Prefixes..

Post  John Wakefield on Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:45 pm

piston 197 wrote:
John Wakefield wrote:
piston 197 wrote:
Think Greeves also used the 086F in late spec East coaster
JH

Indeed they did John, from June 1965
Have you any record for 353E333 I think maybe a Cotton as Greeves allocations were in the 1000's

There are no actual Villiers envgine records surviving to my KNoledgebut you are wrong in your assumption all Greeves 353E engines were in the thousands ?
glasses check book shows  first  25DC Mk2 sports October 64 with frame No 25DC330 and engine 353E 155 ( not in the thousands ?) although by May 65 just 20 frame numbers higher at 25DC350B (East coaster)  engine is recorded as 353E 1050

so looks as if Greeves did use engines below the thousands

JH

Glasses have a digit missing I have the dispatch record for Greeves 25DC330 and engine number was actually 353E1557

John Wakefield

Posts : 105
Join date : 2017-08-31

Back to top Go down

4t ENGINE Nos

Post  piston 197 on Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:10 pm

The Cotton ones i have record of are all higher than 1500 , so maybe for some strange reason Villiers started them off in the 1500's rather than the usual 1 or 101 ??
JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 4218
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: 4T Engine Number Prefixes..

Post  John Wakefield on Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:27 pm

piston 197 wrote:The Cotton ones i have record of are all higher than 1500 , so maybe for some strange reason Villiers started them off in the 1500's rather than the usual 1 or 101 ??
JH

Just heard from a GRA colleague and engine 353E333. It started life on a Greeves 25DD (Essex). So looks like Villiers started around 300. I dont have the frame number of the Greeves but it would have been one of the first 25DD mk2's with 4T engine. There are others with 353E engines in the 600 and 800's

John Wakefield

Posts : 105
Join date : 2017-08-31

Back to top Go down

Re: 4T Engine Number Prefixes..

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum