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Restarting engine when hot

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Restarting engine when hot

Post  MOF5853 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:31 pm

I own a 1953 Falcon 58 with 8E engine recently refurbished. I stopped the engine whilst out on a run(27 C outside temp) and bike wouldn't restart I varied choke and throttle and rested it for 5 mins but no success. I only managed to restart on a hill bump-start(half choke) It ran OK after that. Any ideas please? Many thanks
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Hot starting

Post  Bob1557 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:29 pm

It is probably heat conducting from the barrel to the carb boiling the petrol. Is there a tufinol spacer in between as a thermal break. These were thrown away when kids were working on bikes years ago. You can try leaving the petrol tap on but it does not stop the petrol vaporising. Bob
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Re: Restarting engine when hot

Post  FBKev on Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:53 pm

Bob1557 wrote:It is probably heat conducting from the barrel to the carb boiling the petrol. Is there a tufinol spacer in between as a thermal break. These were thrown away when kids were working on bikes years ago. You can try leaving the petrol tap on but it does not stop the petrol vaporising. Bob
+1 on that answer I have also seen a Finned alloy spacer that would help with tha same thing.
Kev.
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Poor starting

Post  kerabo on Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:11 pm

Next time turn the fuel off and run it dry then just turn it on without flooding and try .
It could be running rich. Flywheel magnets also get weaker when hot so could be a weak spark
Try a very small plug gap that a weak spark can jump

Ken
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Restarting engine when hot

Post  seipgam on Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:22 am

I had a similar problem with my Kestel 13D, impossible to start hot, had to bump start as you did. Someone in my club or possibly this forum, suggested the old coil could be conducting heat while sitting. It was easy to start when cold though (choke on, bit of a tickle, 1/3 throttle). Fitted a new coil and no problems at all now, easy starting hot - no choke or tickling, 1/3 throttle, first kick every time. Runs better too, more "power".

Cheers, Geoff.
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Hot starting

Post  FB vincent on Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:18 am

MOF5853 wrote:I own a 1953 Falcon 58 with 8E engine recently refurbished.  I stopped the engine whilst out on a run(27 C outside temp) and bike wouldn't restart I varied choke and throttle and rested it for 5 mins but no success.  I only managed to restart on a hill bump-start(half choke)  It ran OK after that.  Any ideas please?  Many thanks

If you are sure there is fuel getting to the carb ok, then this is a fairly typical sign of coil or condenser breaking down when hot. Unfortunately modern Villiers coils or condensers are of questionable quality, so even if they were replaced when the engine was refurbished it is no guarantee that they will be satisfactory. The insulation on the originals will almost certainly be failing after over 60 years life. On the 8E the condenser is comparatively easy to replace (it is under the c/b points - the flywheel has to come off) so try this first. If the problem continues, then it will be the coil, which requires the magneto backplate to be removed. There is also some fiddly work to get the replacement coil to fit in the retaining poles. Sandy

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Villiers itus

Post  piston 197 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:32 am

Villiers Itus or won't start when hot !
Heat affects the ability of the magneto/flywheel to operate
Usually the spark is weakened by heat in the ignition side
My advice get the flywheel re-magnetised ( villiers services) it should take about 30Lbs force to pull it off a steel surface table,but from cold it will still spark when this figure drops to about 10Lbs, but it will drop even further when hot and not spark and you cannot get it to kick start, bumping it down hill and getting it spinning faster will often get it going, but no use unless you are on a hill, ( or very fit)
Secondly fit a new ignition coil as the small cracks that form with age in the insulating shellac, become big cracks when the coil is hot.
You can listen to the "carb problems" the need for an insulator ( there never was one on the Villiers E series engine other than a gasket beween the barrel and manifold ( if the bolt on type), but there is no substitute fior re-newing the two main working parts of the flywheel magneto
JH
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Restarting engine when hot

Post  MOF5853 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:57 am

Many thanks for all your replies and lots things now for me to check - easy ones first! I will check out fuel filters, already checked the spark at the time but I will reduce the gap slightly and I will also investigate a Kevlar thermal gasket for the inlet manifold. There is only a fibre one fitted at present. Its a good point about running rich, that was deliberate as it is "running in" after its re-bore and new bearings etc. I will leave the coil change as a last resort! Conditions were hot yesterday for me and the bike. I will check things out and report back in a couple of weeks. Thanks all of you again. Its a great help.
Steve. Maidstone
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tip to hot starting

Post  piston 197 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:09 am

Carry a soft lead pencil with you , when the bike will not start when hot, rub the graphite /lead across the plug elactrodes and try again.
It is an old trick to boost the spark, but it works, it will never be the fix that re-magnetizing the flywheel and replacing the coil is, but may get you started again.
JH
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Restarting engine when hot

Post  MOF5853 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:14 pm

John, many thanks for your posts, I had replied after reading previous replies but missed yours.
I had the flywheel re-magnetised with the recon last year and coil has been replaced (2006). So I was hoping to rule them out, however its on my list if easier jobs don't reveal anything. I will put a pencil in the tool box. Many thanks. Steve
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Re: Restarting engine when hot

Post  cdow50 on Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:55 pm

Another old trick when an engine won't re-start is to heat up the plug electrode - it's not a fix but like the lead pencil trick it usually gets you going. Take out the plug (I carry an old one) heat it up until the electrode is just starting to glow - I use a mini gas blowtorch (about the size of a pen). Then stick the plug back in quick - don't worry about tightening it fully, finger tight will do, just make sure you only touch the white insulation or you'll burn your fingers! (or hold it with some pliers)- this is just to get the engine started. Then quickly kick the engine over. Tickle the carb but no choke or throttle. It usually springs into life - on a 2 stroke with a cloud of dense blue smoke! When you get home don't forget to change the plug and tighten fully.
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