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Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

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Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:56 am

Hi All. My dad found a basket case FB mystery bike at his local landfill that he rescued. After some searching we think itís a trials 83 about a 1962 or so.
The serial number in the head tube is A0T16736.
The second number 0 is a zero from what I can see as it has a small nub at the top right and lower left almost like a slash through it.
Can anyone help confirm the bike? It has an AMC 25c engine, a rear speedo drive and a compression release. We only have a header pipe about a foot long.

I brought the engine back to Ontario and left the rest with Dad in Manitoba. So far I have been able to get it freed up but I am missing the carb and the left side clutch cover. Iíll drfinitely need clutch parts and a new primary chain.

I am going to tear it down some more today. Any tips that are particular to these engines that I should know about before I tear it down?


Last edited by Fletch on Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

Fletch

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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  intrudin on Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:14 am

Fletch wrote:Hi All. My dad found a basket case FB mystery bike at his local landfill that he rescued. †After some searching we think itís a trials 83 about a 1962 or so.
The serial number in the head tube is A0T16736.
The second number 0 is a zero from what I can see as it has a small nub at the top right and lower left almost like a slash through it.
Can anyone help confirm the bike? †It has an AMC 25c engine, a rear speedo drive and a compression release. †We only have a header pipe about a foot long.

I brought the engine back to Ontario and left the rest with Dad in Manitoba. †So far I have been able to get it freed up but I am missing the carb and the left side clutch cover. Iíll drfinitely need clutch parts and a new primary chain.

I am going to tear it down some more today. Any tips that are particular to these engines that I should know about before I tear it down?

Where are located?? i am in "Orangeville On " I haves a 250 AMC parts motor you may be interested in...

I have PM you Regards jimd
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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:42 am

Definitely worth a chat. I just sent you my phone number.
Anyone else have info on the bike?
Cheers

Fletch

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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:03 pm

Alright! So after a couple hours of teardown I got the case halves split and the crank removed.
A question for the guruís on crank big end bearing runout. I have about .001Ē play up and down. Very slight. If this were my KTM crank I would rebuild but am I wrong in thinking that this should be ok for a vintage ride? There is no rust on the rod bearing. I donít plan on doing hundreds of miles. Just a couple vintage trials events each year.
Thoughts?

Fletch

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Big end play

Post  piston 197 on Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:33 pm

Books of the period usually describe big end play as " no discerible up and down movement" if it is just .001" i would in the first try it as it is ?
JH
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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:54 pm

Agreed. I have checked a number of connecting rods by feel and this one took a while to even find a bit of play. Iíll clean it up smore and use it.
Does anyone know where to find main bearings and seals? Mine are shot all round. Likely tranny bearings too.

Fletch

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Bearings and seals

Post  piston 197 on Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:04 pm

Main bearings are RMS 7 ( 2 off driving side), CRM 7/C3 ( 1 off timing side),
Gearbox RLS 4 and RNU 205 C2
Front hub 2 off 6202 9 (use 6202 2RS)
Rear hub 2 off 6302 ( use 6302 2RS)

Wheel bearings are cheap as chips , metric and available everywhere, the numbers quoted for the engine bearings are SKF numbers and may take a bit more tracking down ?
I believe Villiers services ( google them) have the seals, just looked yes they have, crank seals £4.50p each ( 2 needed) and gearbox seal £5.95 ( 1 needed)
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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:07 pm

Wow. Many thanks! Iíll get on that. Things will be busy this summer for me so I want to get a good start on this build before I canít post up for a while.
Is a primary chain easy enough to get?

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primary chain

Post  piston 197 on Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:10 pm

Yes standard imperial pitch chain, usually rivetted up endless, just get the right number of links made up, again Villiers services may be able to help ?
JH
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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm

Does anyone know if the trials 83 is supposedly to have a silencer? I donít have one. Just a header pipe

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Silencer

Post  piston 197 on Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:59 pm

Yes, it is hi-level version of the roadbike one, but has a scallop out of it to clear the frame rails,
Google" images for moto collection.org Francis barnett" and you can see one, titled as model 85, but silencer is the same .
I have a new old stock roadbike one which is available, but this does not have the scalloped clearance and would need modifying
JH
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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Tue May 01, 2018 11:46 am

Just a quick update. Thanks to intrudin I will soon have many of the necessary parts to begin an engine build. I set up a dial indicator on the crank to actually measure the play. .0025 so I was off by a thou and a half! Iíll still run it but look for a crank pin and bearing in my travels.

I had a thought the other day while looking at some old ISDT footage and reading about the 58 trial in Germany. Am I correct in thinking the definition of trials has changed quite a bit in 60 years? Did the development of modern trials prompt organizers of the ISDT to rebrand as the ISDE?
Watching the old videos sure seems to confirm this. But in photos of restored bikes I see a lot of them with modern trials tires on.
I think Iíll get some knobbie tires for this bike instead of the trials ones I have kicking around..

Fletch

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Tyres

Post  piston 197 on Tue May 01, 2018 11:50 am

It would definitely have had block tread trials pattern tyres in the day, almost certainly Dunlop Trials Universals, same pattern as modern trials rubber, just as hard as a brick !
JH
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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Tue May 01, 2018 11:53 am

Ok I see just after I typed that I looked at some still photos and saw more of a trials pattern.

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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Fri May 04, 2018 11:23 pm

Thanks to Intrudin I now own an Amal 376 that will work in the 83 with a main jet change.

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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Fri May 04, 2018 11:27 pm


Fletch

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Carburettor

Post  piston 197 on Sat May 05, 2018 5:49 am

Yes 376 Amal monobloc is the correct type of carb
actual one was coded 376/208 and is 1" bore with
190 main jet#
25 pilot jet#
3 1/2 slide
needle position 3
special needle jet .1055

JH
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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Sat May 05, 2018 10:56 am

This one is a 376/319.

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Carb

Post  kerabo on Sat May 05, 2018 12:07 pm

According to the Amal page that's a 4 stroke carb. The Monoblock I am not sure about but the concentric due to the lack of vacuume on a 2 stroke tend †to have it cut at an angle. I have converted a couple of Concentrics but not the Monoblock. Study the Amal site and you may find pictures.
It can make the world of difference.

Ken
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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Sat May 05, 2018 3:37 pm

According to porklips website
http://porklips.org/~mason/moto/amal_specs.html
The carbs are the same save the main jet. But I will definitely check all numbers as a lot of years have gone by and slides and jetting could have changed .
See 376/208 vs 376/219

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Carb

Post  piston 197 on Sat May 05, 2018 3:43 pm

376/319 is from a BSA A50 Royal star 500cc machine, the body is 1" bore same as the 208, main jet and needle jet are wrong and the brass spray tube which protrudes into the carb body ( viewed from either end of bore) is flat across the top, the two stroke tube should be chamfered off at 45 Deg., so chamfer off the spray tube and get the correct main jet and needle jet and the set up will be correct .
JH
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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

Post  Fletch on Sat May 05, 2018 4:10 pm

Ok will do. Thanks JH and Ken

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Re: Trials 83 1959 build (Canada)

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