Latest topics
» Help:- With advice for bits foe Falcon 81
Yesterday at 7:08 pm by piston 197

»  Plover 86 oil level
Yesterday at 6:26 pm by kerabo

» F/B Sports Cruiser 91/96 For Sale
Yesterday at 11:28 am by peter@dunfordconstruction

» FB bikes and equipment for sale
Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:14 pm by kerabo

» Kestrel 69 fork seals
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:03 pm by David Newstead

» Rectifier help please
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:39 am by Maurice

» AMC fork bolts
Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:46 pm by Bigjim

» 32A-37A HEAD
Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:45 pm by FBKev

» Anyone looking for a Powerbike?
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:34 am by kerabo


8e crankcase

Go down

8e crankcase

Post  alan67 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:00 pm

Hi guys I have spent the afternoon sitting in the workshop with the heater on [ as it's a bit nippy at the mo ] striping my 8e ready for rebuild, i am down to parting the crankcases all bolts are out but cases won't part, i'm resisting the urge to drive fox wedges between cases, and heating them around bearing, or is this the way forward, the heat i mean not the wedges, or am i missing something any help would be great thanks Alan
avatar
alan67

Posts : 85
Join date : 2017-10-30
Age : 61
Location : lowestoft suffolk

Back to top Go down

Re: 8e crankcase

Post  Dadzee on Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:50 am

Hi Alan

I too am in exactly the same situation with my 8e. Did you get it sorted ?

Cheers Ed

Dadzee

Posts : 17
Join date : 2018-03-25

Back to top Go down

Mallet required

Post  piston 197 on Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:14 pm

You should (if you have all of the bolts out) be able to hit the end of the shaft at the flywheel end with a mallet and you will remove the right hand case, then turn it round and repeat from the other end, you will then remove the crank from the outer bearing and have the inner bearing still on the crankshaft.

JH
avatar
piston 197
Moderator

Posts : 3996
Join date : 2008-08-17
Location : ross-on-wye

Back to top Go down

Re: 8e crankcase

Post  Dadzee on Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:00 am

Thanks again JH yup bolts out...Time to man up !

Perhaps I am being too gentle. cheers Ed

Dadzee

Posts : 17
Join date : 2018-03-25

Back to top Go down

8e crankcase

Post  alan67 on Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:57 pm

Hi Ed I had a right job getting mine apart, John is correct in the way to part casings , when i first posted my prob i did not get a reply so i found a copy of J.H.Goddards book on Francis Barnetts ,[ a must for f/b owners ] and that told me how to part casings , on inspection i found a crack in the crank case around the primary side outer bearing, see pic , i think this had been glued with the bearing many years ago , then a found that the crankshaft had had some damage to the thread on the primary side, it has been turned down and rethreaded [ not sure if you can see that in pic ] so i got a bit more bold with the mallet when i found i would have to replace most of the bottom end . i have since found two matching casings and crank and engine is just about rebuilt now, but i have unfortunately now lost the original 387a prefix , i have a later 070b prefix , hope all is going well with your engine and good luck Alan

avatar
alan67

Posts : 85
Join date : 2017-10-30
Age : 61
Location : lowestoft suffolk

Back to top Go down

Re: 8e crankcase

Post  Dadzee on Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:59 pm

Hi Alan
Thankyou for a most interesting and comprehensive reply with the pics. I shall try and find that book and follow the good advice.
I see your in Lowestoft. I run the carwash on Katwijk way so perhaps when we can compare engine notes when were both up and running !

Cheers Ed

Dadzee

Posts : 17
Join date : 2018-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: 8e crankcase

Post  Dadzee on Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:29 pm

Cheers fellas

All nicely seperated

Ed

Dadzee

Posts : 17
Join date : 2018-03-25

Back to top Go down

8E crankcase separation

Post  keith livingstone on Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:12 pm

Hi guys,
Glad you got your crankcases sorted.

I have very limited facilities in my garage and it's probably the one thing more than anything else that has made me stick with Villiers' projects, is the ease of dismantling. Heat is the key. Pop the parts in the oven at 100C / 120C and they cases will almost fall apart! (I known it won't always go down well in the kitchen). Use naked flame sparingly or you'll melt seals.

I too learnt the hard way years ago when I cracked a case half prizing it apart!

Best wishes
Keith
avatar
keith livingstone

Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-11-25
Age : 60
Location : Northern Ireland

Back to top Go down

8e crankcase

Post  alan67 on Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:53 am

Hi guys I know what you mean Keith about the kitchen area, i was boiling my new clutch corks, and the mess it left in my old girls saucepan good job she was out ha ha Ed what bike have you got i'm on june ave you are more than welcome to pop in regards Alan
avatar
alan67

Posts : 85
Join date : 2017-10-30
Age : 61
Location : lowestoft suffolk

Back to top Go down

Re: 8e crankcase

Post  Dadzee on Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:49 am

Cheers Keith... What a handy tip even though it could end in divorce !
Alan I have recently picked up a 53 Falcon in abused condition. It has been modded to a trials/field bike (school boy stylee) probably in the 70s so I am going to return it to a road bike in the spirit of its history...Although thats the easy bit as I also have to pass my test to ride it !! June Ave. excellant shall we have a meet up when were up and running or like wise pop into the wash to say hello. Regards Ed

Dadzee

Posts : 17
Join date : 2018-03-25

Back to top Go down

8e crankcase

Post  alan67 on Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:47 am

Hi Ed sounds like we have the same model bike falcon 67 mine is early 54 i think post the frame number to John Harding , but use the pm button , i'm sure John will help to identify your bike if you have no papers, and he has one or two parts for sale. i'm often in car wash i will keep an eye out for you next time i'm in Alan ps make sure it's not a model 65 before you start ripping it apart that model would be sort after and it looks like some school kids put it together but don't tell John i said that Laughing pps John's name on forum is piston 197
avatar
alan67

Posts : 85
Join date : 2017-10-30
Age : 61
Location : lowestoft suffolk

Back to top Go down

Re: 8e crankcase

Post  kerabo on Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:20 pm

Dadzee wrote:Hi Alan
Thankyou for a most interesting and comprehensive reply with the pics. I shall try and find that book and follow the good advice.
I see your in Lowestoft. I run the carwash on Katwijk way so perhaps when we can compare engine notes when were both up and running !

Cheers Ed

How did you crack the case in that direction?

Did you hit against the circlip


Ken
avatar
kerabo

Posts : 2379
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 68
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

Back to top Go down

8e crankcase

Post  alan67 on Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:01 pm

Hi ken when i got the crank case unbolted and ready to part i thought i could simply part the casing with my bare hands although i did try taping the ends of the crank with a mallet i was unsure of the correct procedure and did not hit things that hard , when i was striping down the engine i had a job unscrewing the nut holding the primary side engine sprocket and withdrawing the sprocket itself , it seemed to have been glued then as you see in pics crank case had been glued around the outer bearing area so the damage had already been done, my be years ago the crank came out leaving the bearing in the case, one tap and bearing fell out and crank case fell in two , the thread on the crank has been turned down and rethreaded bearings and big end was shot so i found another bottom end and rebuilt that , Now you mention a circlip what circlip ? Alan
avatar
alan67

Posts : 85
Join date : 2017-10-30
Age : 61
Location : lowestoft suffolk

Back to top Go down

Bearings

Post  kerabo on Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:17 pm

I may be getting confused with the 9E.
The outer bearing has a circlip and if you attempted to drive them out together it's solid.

Sorry to confuse things

Ken
avatar
kerabo

Posts : 2379
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 68
Location : Falcon 87. Trials 93 Special. Powerbike 56. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

Back to top Go down

8e crankcases

Post  keith.hodgenia on Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:04 am

I picked up a small toaster over, the sort you might find in a student bedsit. It cost a tenner at a boot sale. It's big enough for a bottom end to go in.
avatar
keith.hodgenia

Posts : 131
Join date : 2011-06-28
Location : Wirral. model 14, model 4 and 2 big boxes of bits.

Back to top Go down

Re: 8e crankcase

Post  Dadzee on Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:01 am

alan67 wrote:Hi Ed sounds like we have the same model bike falcon 67 mine is early 54 i think post the frame number to John Harding , but use the pm button , i'm sure John will help to identify your bike if you have no papers, and he has one or two parts for sale. i'm often in car wash i will keep an eye out for you next time i'm in Alan ps make sure it's not a model 65 before you start ripping it apart that model would be sort after and it looks like some school kids put it together but don't tell John i said that Laughing pps John's name on forum is piston 197

Hi fellas sorry for the slow reply. Just by chance I stumbled across some information while searching the net that identified my bike from the serial number as a 53 falcon series 2 (model 58). I would dearly like it to be a rare beast but I am not sure FB would bodge like that ... Haha. John spotted my enquiry about age related plates and has very kindly offered to cast his eye over it at some stage.

Toaster for heating up ...great idea
Cheers Ed

Dadzee

Posts : 17
Join date : 2018-03-25

Back to top Go down

8e crankcase

Post  alan67 on Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:25 pm

Hi Ed model 58 very nice looking little bike , not so dissimilar from my model, i believe the early one's had a 6e engine and latter one's an 8e . from 1953 the 8e had engine prefix number 387a and frame prefix number tms or ttms but John will confirm what is correct . if you get stuck for info as to what go's were when you start to restore the bike give me a shout as i have a few books with dater and pic's etc which may help Alan
avatar
alan67

Posts : 85
Join date : 2017-10-30
Age : 61
Location : lowestoft suffolk

Back to top Go down

Prefix & Frame Numbers

Post  MoscowFlyer on Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:42 pm

Hi Alan, you're right about the prefix letters, although they can be found inside the spares book for the Falcon 58 as below.

The 1953 Falcon 58 was interesting as they offered quite a few options, you could have a three or a four speed gearbox, to fit a four speed it had it own front frame, part number 5180, the standard frame number is 4902.

If you wanted a pillion seat fitted, you had the choice of two, either one fitted directly onto the mudguard or one that fitted along with a carrier.

You also had a choice of rear sprocket size, standard was 44 teeth, or you could have a 48, 50, 52, or 54. Mike

avatar
MoscowFlyer

Posts : 1104
Join date : 2008-02-21
Age : 71
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

8e crankcase

Post  alan67 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:55 am

Arr! that explains the weird and wonderful world of Francis Barnett's model numbering, thanks Moscowflyer Rolling Eyes Alan
avatar
alan67

Posts : 85
Join date : 2017-10-30
Age : 61
Location : lowestoft suffolk

Back to top Go down

Re: 8e crankcase

Post  Dadzee on Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:17 am

alan67 wrote:Hi Ed model 58 very nice looking little bike , not so dissimilar from my model, i believe the early one's had a 6e engine and latter one's an 8e . from 1953 the 8e had engine prefix number 387a and frame prefix number tms or ttms but John will confirm what is correct . if you get stuck for info as to what go's were when you start to restore the bike give me a shout as i have a few books with dater and pic's etc which may help Alan


Hi Alan.

Your absolutely correct its an 8e engine prefixed by 387a and yes my frame number starts TTMS. I have followed your suggestion and bought the JH Goddard FB book. I am making good progress on dismantling and cleaning the engine compomnents and am hoping to take a trip to villiers services soon to have them reassemble the crank with the new bearings (or can you suggest somewhere more local). I am also pleased to have scrapped off some of the 70s paint to reveal the old finish to the tank and starting on the frame now. It would be very helpful at some stage to look at your bike and literature in order to fill the gaps such as size of mudguard stays etc. Interesting information moscow flyer... I have remains of sawn off brackets so this may evidence a carrier of some sort. My gearbox has stamped on it 17T STD, does this refer to the sprocket, I wonder, which has 17 teeth (16.5 actually) and also 824 on the gearbox casing. cheers Ed

Dadzee

Posts : 17
Join date : 2018-03-25

Back to top Go down

Gearbox Sprocket

Post  MoscowFlyer on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:56 am

Hi Ed, yes it refers to 17 teeth (standard) for the gearbox sprocket, part number is E8231, also there is a 15 teeth(to order) part number 8230, these are for the three speed gearbox. I have got 19 teeth sprocket in my spares box, it is NOS with a parts number D8744, it looks the same type as yours with the two treaded holes in the side.

Below is a picture of the carrier etc, hope this helps in your search. Mike

avatar
MoscowFlyer

Posts : 1104
Join date : 2008-02-21
Age : 71
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

8e crankcase

Post  alan67 on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:07 pm

Hi Ed you can look at my bike when ever you like , i'm home from work by 4pm most days, as far as your crank, if you are having to replace the big end villiers services would be your best bet all other bearings can be bought of ebay for about 25 the set and fit your self , a while back a friend gave me some F/B hand books thinking they may help me with the restoration of a cruiser 80 i was doing but none of the books were for the 80 but looking at the pics that moscow flyer has kindly posted has jogged my memory i will dig out them old books and see if there is anything on the falcons , regards Alan
avatar
alan67

Posts : 85
Join date : 2017-10-30
Age : 61
Location : lowestoft suffolk

Back to top Go down

Re: 8e crankcase

Post  Dadzee on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:05 pm

Hi Mike and Alan. Thanks Mike very much for the answers and illustration they are very helpful, it amazes how much you guys know. Id like to fabricate a rack so it has helped me much more than expected. Alan it will be great to meet up with you. Ill get the engine fixed up (hopefully running) then Ill put the whole thing in the van and bring it to work...might be a while but Ill give you good notice to check your about

Cheers Ed

Dadzee

Posts : 17
Join date : 2018-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: 8e crankcase

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum