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The Falcon 87 so far!

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The Falcon so far. These things are slow!

Post  colk2004 on Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:06 pm



Warming itself against the winter temperatures in the kitchen currently. Every little bit seems to require something I've missed, can't find, etc. Stand spring is here so I've a rod to bend and drill for that. Powder coaters have lost an engine mount so thats still sat in the garage whilst they knock up and coat a replacement. It'll come together when it's done, no rush...luckily.

Cheers Colin
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Project

Post  kerabo on Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:26 pm

That's going to look nice Colin

I can't recall seeing pump fittings on any of my Falcon 87s

Ken
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Falcon 87 - pump fittings.

Post  colk2004 on Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:29 pm

Thanks Ken, though by the time I get the top and bottom yoke into place I think some of my hard work will be scratched...already lost a few steel balls into the frame never to be seen again. Pump fittings don't look like an add on. Top one needs a bit of gentle lining up now I have a pump, which strangely has come from the MZ restoration! Who knew the MZ hand pump was exactly the right size, exactly the right price for a Falcon 87?! Well 10 including buying the Francis Barnett sticker. For a Yorkshireman that's nearly a bargain.

Cheers Colin
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Asembley

Post  kerabo on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:14 am

I always get the wife out there to push the steering bolt through when it's all in line. Thick grease holds the balls in although like you I have some in my frame.
It's very hard not to chip paint when doing his sort of work and when I see bikes at shows that are perfect and there are not many I stand back in amazement .
Ken
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Tyre pump fittings

Post  FB vincent on Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:52 am

The two tyre pump clips on the downtube are original and correct.

Sandy (who spent his youth studying such matters on the brand new FB's lined up in dealer's showrooms)

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Falcon 87

Post  kerabo on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:58 pm

I better get to SpecSavers All 3 of my frames have pump clips fitted. Rolling Eyes

Ken
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Tyre Pump Fittings.

Post  colk2004 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:25 pm

I can see how it would be very easy to loose a pump off said fittings very easily. I'd left them slightly skew, because of not having a pump and not wanting to pay silly money for the ones from Germany (about 30 ish). Once the mountings are tickled into shape I can see a couple of nice rubber cable ties being employed to keep said pump from bouncing of it's mounts and being lost.

Steering bolt was proving a juggle on my own. Every time I came to putting the top spacer in, one of the steering head bearings tipped and one (or more) of the balls would trickle slowly on a trail of grease down the headstock and round the bend into the frame tubes - luckily I miss counted and bought a bag of spares. I think the problem is that it was tight before stripping and now having stripped, powder coated and rebuilt, everything isn't fully bedded and now the spacer won't fit (no shim there when stripped). Think I might have to employ a scissor jack to gain back the slack needed (very gently), then shim when it all beds in at a later date.

Ken - Don't worry, I'm sure the little blighters move! Every time I measure the Bantam for a pump, I'm positive I get a different measurement!

Cheers Colin
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Tiny bit further.

Post  colk2004 on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:46 pm





Keeping me amused! For a simple bike it always seem that I go one step forward then find a small bit missing. I think the originality has gone out the window due to budget - so now it's clean and rideable as a target.

Cheers Colin
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Re: The Falcon 87 so far!

Post  banjo boy on Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:43 pm

It's looking good Colin,it's hard to keep in budget and not get carried away.

Regards
Laurence
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Has anyone got a photo of a naked Falcon 87?

Post  colk2004 on Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:04 pm

Thanks Laurence. I stupidly kept a spreadsheet of everything spent on the Falcon so far. Nuts, bolts paints the lot. Quite frightening. But then for a couple of years entertainment, and a bit of an education - I suppose quite cheap. First show I turn up at, any rivet counters present will have a coronary. I can't understand why James, and FBs fetch so little when they cost as much as anything else to restore, and the tinware and specialist bits (pistons, eg) are rarer than hens teeth.

Cheers Colin
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Little value

Post  Andy Knightley on Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:24 pm

Colin, I.feel your pain I have a model 96 that is for sale and I have had no interest at all, strange for a restored bike.
Andy

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Little Value

Post  colk2004 on Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:57 pm

Makes no sense to me. The quality of the parts so far has been a mile ahead of the quality of the BSA Bantam I restored (and still fettling due to some shoddy bits), and yet Classic Bike Guide still has James and FBs at some crazy low figure. But then I've got a Reliant Scimitar that suffers with the same low value problem - only 14,000 ever built across all the models and a lot have survived - not many classics you'd happily do 600 miles in a day in and keep up with modern traffic, yet cheap as chips as the mahogany antiques guy would say. Good luck with the sale

Cheers Colin
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bantams V FB's

Post  piston 197 on Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:07 pm

Smashing little engine the Bantam, but it should be it was designed by the Germans !, there are several poor points though
1 the gearbox oil feeds the l/hand main bearing and seal, meaning dirty oil with bits of gearbox contaminate the L/hand bearing, and gearbox oil is continually being used, resulting in bearing and seal failure if allowed to run out
2 The need to take the engine in half to change the crankcase seals
3 special tools and pullers to work on the engine/clutch.

The Villiers engine is much more mechanic friendly, (less if any) special tools required, I have met a few people with little knowledge who embarked upon a Bantam restoration only to have given up once they had the engine in bits.
The build quality as stated elsewhere of the FB knocks spots off the Bantam, but this may well have contributed to the cost and ultimate end of the marque

JH
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Re: The Falcon 87 so far!

Post  kerabo on Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:47 pm

colk2004 wrote:Thanks Laurence. I stupidly kept a spreadsheet of everything spent on the Falcon so far. Nuts, bolts paints the lot. Quite frightening. But then for a couple of years entertainment, and a bit of an education - I suppose quite cheap. First show I turn up at, any rivet counters present will have a coronary. I can't understand why James, and FBs fetch so little when they cost as much as anything else to restore, and the tinware and specialist bits (pistons, eg) are rarer than hens teeth.

Cheers Colin
I also kept a spreadsheet and yes it frightening. Must keep,out of the wife's way.

After the fire and the National Motorcycle Musuem I asked where the FBs were and was told they are not economical to rebuild.

Ken
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Re: The Falcon 87 so far!

Post  kerabo on Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:49 pm

piston 197 wrote:Smashing little engine the Bantam, but it should be it was designed by the Germans !, there are several poor points though
1 the gearbox oil feeds the l/hand main bearing and seal, meaning dirty oil with bits of gearbox contaminate the L/hand bearing, and gearbox oil is continually being used, resulting in bearing and seal failure if allowed to run out
2 The need to take the engine in half to change the crankcase seals
3 special tools and pullers to work on the engine/clutch.

The Villiers engine is much more mechanic friendly, (less if any) special tools required, I have met a few people with little knowledge who embarked upon a Bantam restoration only to have given up once they had the engine in bits.
The build quality as stated elsewhere of the FB knocks spots off the Bantam, but this may well have contributed to the cost and ultimate end of the marque

JH
Found a picture on the Internet the other day of a Bantam fitted with a Villiers. Looked like an 8E and looked very good.
Ken
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NMM fire

Post  piston 197 on Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:53 pm

I bought 2 of the bikes from the NMM fire a Matchless G80CS and the FB Cruiser 84, give you a clue what the Cruiser 84 was like it cost 80, all aluminium castings were OK, carb was melted and gone, roof slates had cut big holes in the tank, every spring was like soft wire, barrel head and piston were OK, crank was soft and U/S needless to say tinwork was OK and seat base, but that was about all.
It was broken for parts and I managed to salvage about 40% of it, but it was never a viable rebuild !

JH
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Re: The Falcon 87 so far!

Post  kerabo on Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:06 pm

piston 197 wrote:I bought 2 of the bikes from the NMM fire a Matchless G80CS and the FB Cruiser 84, give you a clue what the Cruiser 84 was like it cost 80, all aluminium castings were OK, carb was melted and gone, roof slates had cut big holes in the tank, every spring was like soft wire, barrel head and piston were OK, crank was soft and U/S needless to say tinwork was OK and seat base, but that was about all.
It was broken for parts and I managed to salvage about 40% of it, but it was never a viable rebuild !

JH
Yes John I have seen pictures, but they still rebuilt countless Triumphs, BSA and Nortons. I think the FB has as much history as those especially the big twins of which they show 15 or 20 all looking the same.

Ken
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Rebuild of bikes at NMM

Post  piston 197 on Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:16 pm

They only rebuilt the lightly damaged , economic cost wise machines and those of specific interest/historic importance, with things like the FB it was more cost effective to replace with restored machines.
Having spent approx. 3500 on restoring the 1954/55 FB ISDT machine of George Fisher ( it will be on the club stand at Stafford) I can understand the costs involved, if the bike had no significant history and was a basic road bike with no sentimental value I would never have commenced on the restoration.
The ISDT bike was 50% complete and had been used as a field bike before being attacked with a hammer so was in a similar state to the museum fire damaged bikes !
Fortunately others spend a fortune on in-economic projects, mopeds, scooters etc. and save them for posterity, but in a business like the NMM cost's have to be justified.
JH
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Just keeping the build diary up to date

Post  colk2004 on Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:25 pm

And should anyone else be doing up a late model Falcon 87 hopefully some of these photos will be a bit of a help. I finally sorted out the order of the front wheel spacers which got mixed up with the back and are of course nothing like any of the parts diagrams. The mudguard was again a complete nightmare to fit as the powder coating on the forks made the mudguard brackets not fit and if anyone else is doing this, these top clamp mudguard things are better fitted at the stage where you are fitting the fork bottoms to the uppers as they now need touching up. The back wheel should behave though as it seems to follow the parts list diagram........ Shocked



Cheers Colin
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Re: The Falcon 87 so far!

Post  Andrewwoey on Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:15 pm

Great rebuild thread. Its going to be a lovely bike when done.

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And a little bit more.

Post  colk2004 on Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:20 pm



Stuck now till I get the final bits. Wiring loom is being made up and should arrive Wednesday, mudguard, seat and engine mounts are in the post. Only bit really holding things up is the exhaust downpipe, as mine is shocking. Engine fitting has turned out to be the easiest thing so far, very odd Smile

Cheers Colin
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Falcon 87 electrical gubbins.

Post  colk2004 on Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:24 pm



Bill has done me proud again and made up a nice cloth wrapped, brand spanking new (including sockets) wiring harness, which hopefully is as good as his Bantam ones. Theres nothing worse than trying to work with a hardened, dirty, failing wiring harness.

Cheers Colin
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Re: The Falcon 87 so far!

Post  banjo boy on Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:21 pm

Hi Colin
Your bike is taking shape very nicely,I agree with having a new harness is solves a lot of problems when you have a old one with repaired and hard wires,I had same situation with my 87.

Regards
Laurence
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Falcon so far

Post  colk2004 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:10 pm

New harness is the way forward for me. I've got a XV535 with dodgy wiring that I've got to swap the old loom for a better old loom, the Scimitar wiring has been butchered beyond belief and I shudder at the thought of having to rewire the dashboard but that's what it needs. The Bantam with a new harness just worked electrically from the off, the harness is cloth covered so looks right, best 50 I spent on the bike - better than the original towbar wiring lead that was half connected. The wiring on the Falcon 87 was one wipac socket and the wires dangling off the old rectifier so I thought I'd treat it...and myself! Just tired of dealing with dodgy electrics.

Cheers Colin
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falcon 87

Post  peter@dunfordconstruction on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:23 pm

Hi Colk.

I notice you have found the little plastic illuminators on the headlamp of your 87 I wondered where you got them from as I need 3 sets?

Regards

Peter
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Re: The Falcon 87 so far!

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