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cruiser 84 conversion

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cruiser 84 conversion

Post  mike Sayer on Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:31 pm

Hi folks, getting on with the cruiser 84 conversion, I have fitted the 2T engine in place of the 25T, now I need to get on with the wiring. I conclude that with the 2T engine in the machine, the wiring could be exactly the same as that in the Cruiser 89 but to achieve this, the 84 would have to be fitted with the 89 headlamp shell & lighting switch & the 89 wiring loom. I can make a loom but I need a shell & switch. Does anyone out there have either or both of these for sale please to enable me to crack on?
Mike Very Happy
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Cruiser 84 Conversion

Post  tbird on Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:50 pm

Hi Mike
Glad you are getting on with the (What are you going to call it ??) 84 2T.
As far as the wiring is concerned if I were you I would make your own harness.
I bought a harness from a company and it was not right at all, so I finished up striping it and making it up myself.
As far as the headlight shell is concerned why don't you leave the two switches in the shell but only use one, that way you have not got to fish around for another shell.(Simple tut! tut!) plus there is still an Amp. just an idea.
Hope you have been following my post about the solid state rectifier.????

Graham (tbird) Laughing Shocked
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Cruiser 84 conversion

Post  mike Sayer on Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:34 pm

Hi Graham, I think 2T84 sounds better!
I did think about keeping the original H/L shell & switches but I thought there would be complications with the wiring`cos the ignition side would have to be modified as the 2T has its ignition switch in the engine as you know. My request for an 89 H/L shell was answered immediately by Piston 197 & will be on its way to me in the next few days no doubt, so , problem solved. I agree, it will be better for me to make a suitable loom, now, if only I could understand how to incorporate the Bridge Rectifier???...........???? I`m hoping somebody can put it in words of one syllable, there must be someone out there bright enough to help us oldies fit one... HELP!!
Mike
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Villiers 2T electrics

Post  FB vincent on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:01 pm

Mike,

Unless you are using non standard battery powered DC ignition coils (as per the AMC/Wipac system), the 'ignition' switch on the Villiers engine casing does nothing more than earth out the contact breaker points so preventing any AC current to get to the ignition coils. Yes, the Wipac switches are a complete nightmare and I find it impossible to understand what is going on in that maze of wiring! Sandy

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Cruiser 84 Conversion

Post  tbird on Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:04 pm

Mike
If you have been following my post on the 2T electrics, you will see I am confused about the solid state rectifier as well.
I have had a lot of help from members but it is not easy for a layman too understand these circuits.
I assume you have a 2T circuit diagram.?? if not I can e-main you one.
At the moment I have wired the 89 up for lights and horn but don't know what the engine coils are like (to start the engine etc.) Sandy has helped quite a bit but I am trying to incorporate the solid state rectifier/rectifiers with possibly the High output Magneto which I have made for the Turbo Twin before I went to 12 volts.
keep us informed on progress.

Graham(tbird) Rolling Eyes
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cruiser 84 conversion

Post  mike Sayer on Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:55 pm

Graham, yes, I have a Cruiser 89 circuit diagram which you kindly sent me a while ago, thanks. What I propose doing is to wire the bike exactly as per the 89 diagram using the standard rectifier. Am I correct in assuming the rectifier is the same as that used on the Cruiser 84 (part No. 06252) can anyone tell me?

Sandy, thanks for your help, The wiring on these bikes leaves a lot to be desired I think, particularly from the point of view of congestion of wires at the switches & I intend to try to rearrange some of the connection points to ease this congestion. I am happy to make up a loom since I used to do quite a lot of this sort of electrics during & after my apprenticeship at Marconis working in Test Equipment & Central Drawing Office but having said that, wiring up a Radar installation is a bit different to wiring a motorbike (although both were in the 60`s)
I take your point regarding the ignition.
Mike.
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Cruiser 89 rectifier

Post  FB vincent on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:50 pm

Mike,

The standard 2T engined Villiers selenium rectifier is described as part no. M2805, which takes us down the separate discussion as to how any modern replacement should be wired up. There are significant differences between the Villliers/FB electrical system and the standard Wipac alternator wiring as used on most AMC lightweigt machines including the Cruiser 84. Sandy

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cruiser 84 conversion

Post  mike Sayer on Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:50 pm

Sandy, you seem to know what you are talking about, so can I ask you this specific question following on to my reply to Graham in the first paragraph of my post of yesterday (18th) at 7.55pm :-
As I propose to wire the 2T84 EXACTLY as per the wiring diagram for the Cruiser 89 (using Wipac lighting switch as per the diagram) & using the rectifier as per the diagram (& which you tell me is part No. M2805) , do you not think this would be satisfactory? It would seem to me that my only problem is getting hold of the correct rectifier to suit the 89 spec. if it is not the same as the one used on the 84 (which uses Wipac equipment)
Regards, Mike. scratch
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Cruiser 84 conversion

Post  FB vincent on Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:02 am

mike Sayer wrote:Sandy, you seem to know what you are talking about, so can I ask you this specific question following on to my reply to Graham in the first paragraph of my post of yesterday (18th) at 7.55pm :-
As I propose to wire the 2T84 EXACTLY as per the wiring diagram for the Cruiser 89 (using Wipac lighting switch as per the diagram) & using the rectifier as per the diagram (& which you tell me is part No. M2805) , do you not think this would be satisfactory? It would seem to me that my only problem is getting hold of the correct rectifier to suit the 89 spec. if it is not the same as the one used on the 84 (which uses Wipac equipment)
Regards, Mike. scratch

Mike,

O dear, please do not think I am an electrical expert! Having owned my AMC engined Falcon 87 for over 50 years, I have had no choice but to attempt to understand how the Wipac alternator and wiring system works. My ex police 4T engined Cruiser 89 has the Villiers high output generator with Lucas DC coils and (originally) Lucas rectifiers, but this lacks the simplicity of the standard Villiers ignition system (which is fine as long as the coils, c/b points and condensers are in good condition). Villiers ignition systems tend to fail through old age, but coils and condensers are readily available from Villiers services – we have recently brought back to life two 2F engines in our New Hudson autocycles.

I have been talking to my neighbour who is a retired electronics engineer, and I now think I know how to wire a modern bridge rectifier into a Villiers circuit – it appears that these coils have a centre tap on the windings. There are also several threads on this forum which make suggestions for Villiers single cylinder engines with the Villiers/Westinghouse rectifier and they may help – the forum ‘Search’ function will find them.

On balance I would stick with the original standard Cruiser 89 wiring as per drawing 7613 since it is so much simpler. Unfortunately I do not think that FB published a drawing of the high output generator and DC ignition coils as used on my ex police Cruiser, the Villiers wiring diagram 40616 does not cover the ignition and lighting switching arrangement as used by FB, although it is probably similar to the AMC/Wipac system but without the resistance wire.

Old selenium rectifiers do break down with age, but you might yet get away with an old one – the problems are (a) reverse flow which results in a flat battery, and (b) reduced voltage to the battery. The original Wipac selenium rectifier on my Falcon 87 is still in service.

Good luck, Sandy



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