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My Falcon 81

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Re: My Falcon 81

Post  Malfisher on Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:44 pm

I'll not give up Steve, well, at least not till Ive tried a new set of points and a condenser anyway! Surely after that there cant be anything else to change.

Whats the spark like from your new coil Steve? Stong or a bit weak?

Malc.
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Sparks

Post  fulmar88 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:41 pm

Malc, Just took the plug out to have a look. Each kick gives a number of sparks (5 or 6?) which I would describe as generally blue with just a hint of red/orange about them. So I guess you would say it was pretty strong?
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Re: My Falcon 81

Post  Malfisher on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:34 pm

Sounds better then mine Steve, but I'll have to check again. Are your points and condenser new ones, or at least in good order?

If I cant get a good spark after points and condenser change i'll send the coil back, as it could be a duffer. Im going to be real busy this next week though, got to build a bullet up to sell, I need the money to pay for a Honda 125.

Malc
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spark

Post  kerabo on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:36 pm

Malc

No chance you bought a 12v coil?

Ken
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Points and condenser

Post  fulmar88 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:50 pm

Malc, I fitted new points about 300 miles ago and a new condenser when I fitted the external coil.

Steve.
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Re: My Falcon 81

Post  Malfisher on Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:15 pm

kerabo wrote:Malc

No chance you bought a 12v coil?

Ken

its the same one Steve got Ken, FS1e coil, so I doubt it.

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Re: My Falcon 81

Post  Malfisher on Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:17 pm

fulmar88 wrote:Malc, I fitted new points about 300 miles ago and a new condenser when I fitted the external coil.

Steve.

I think mines all pretty old Steve, so hopefully new will solve this.

By the way, how much does a points and condenser cost for these Villiers?

Malc.
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Points

Post  fulmar88 on Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:10 am


Malc, I bought mine last summer but I think it was about 10 for the points and maybe 5 for the condenser.

Steve.
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Re: My Falcon 81

Post  Malfisher on Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:30 am

I better arrange a mortgage then Steve! Laughing I will call Villiers and enquire, get them in the post. Ive got a vague notion to ride the bike to Uttoxeter show in July as opposed to the trailer, but dont want any breakdowns especially on the way to the show!

Malc
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Re: My Falcon 81

Post  Malfisher on Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:15 am

Yesterday I tried something different. Me and Eck took the head off and made sure the timing was set to the points just releasing a fag paper at 11/64th btdc, and then as close to 0.0015 open at tdc, not so easy as it sounds. Anyway, I believe the rattling was much reduced which leads me to believe that it was pinking. But best of all after a roughly 10 mile round trip, I stopped it and she started first kick. Tried it 3 times still good, so theres a result! I also tried it later at around 9pm to experience the power of the Villieres direct lighting, stopped her again and she started 1st kick. I still dont 100% trust her though and Im sure the first time I stop her 10 miles from home she wont start. Laughing

Oh, and just to make me realise what the game is, the speedo cable broke on the ride.

Malc.
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Re: My Falcon 81

Post  Malfisher on Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:48 pm

Continued testing the hot starting today. Did a ride round of about 20 miles or so, stopping the engine 5 times, each time it restared easily, mostly first kick. And then when I got home which took 2 kicks. So all in all it's looking good now. Im pretty sure now that the timing being that bit out made the difference. However, I will still change the condenser when the new one comes as it will no doubt increse the power of the spark which to my eye is still pretty weak. But, all in all a great result I can trust her to tootle round on now and know if it stalls or i need to stop an restart it wont be a problem.....still touching wood though!


Malc.
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coil conversion

Post  piston 197 on Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:21 pm

When you consider the cruiser 68 came out in 1953 and this used a separate LT and HT coil similiar to what you have done to your falcon 81,it would appear villiers missed a trick, as all 8E 10E,9E and all trials engines stayed with the combined coil situated inside the flywheel, where it can get hot and fail,right up to the last 1967 produced 37A's. So what we are doing now is nothing new as villiers were doing it on 1H,and 2T engines ,i personally have been converting my villiers engined trials bikes to this system fo the last 25 years,JH
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Re: My Falcon 81

Post  Malfisher on Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:58 pm

It makes perfect sense to me John, and, just so long as you get a decent spark I like it better than a battery powered coil, as it dont even need the battery to be any good to start the bike. Have you ever had to rewind the LT on the coil to cure a weak spark John? Ive also read that to make a fatter spark you can wire the LT with one of the lighting coils, any comments on this?

Malc.
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lighting coil

Post  piston 197 on Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:59 pm

The coil has to be in the position the ignition coil is, as this corresponds to the flux point of the magnets and the opening of the points,i have in the past used a lighting coil in the position of the ignition coil,but there are too many windings and it overloads the HT coil
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Re: My Falcon 81

Post  Malfisher on Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:31 pm

piston 197 wrote:The coil has to be in the position the ignition coil is, as this corresponds to the flux point of the magnets and the opening of the points,i have in the past used a lighting coil in the position of the ignition coil,but there are too many windings and it overloads the HT coil


Yes John, it's in that place, but since the spark is still a bit weak, what Im considering is taking the LT wire off the coil and rewinding new wire on of the same thickness and length. I suppose the wire would be easy enough to come by. But, they also state in the Villiers tuning manual that to avoid this job, you can hook up one of the lighting coils in series to the LT coil output to boost the LT output to the external HT coil. I just wondered had you ever tried this?

Malc.
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coils

Post  piston 197 on Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:04 pm

Malc,can't see how it will work and still have lights,also the coil opposite will be working off the opposite polarity of the flywheel,and the top and bottom ones will be out of sync with the flux point,also the extra voltage from the additional coil is likely to affect the external HT coil.I have fitted a trials bike up to use a lighting coil to provide the LT side (not hooked up to the LT side of the coil) and after 2 HT coils had packed up,i gave up on that idea! JH
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Coil

Post  kerabo on Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:37 pm

Malc

Is your plug cable solderd to the coil or is it the contact type? Is the plug cable ok and the cap. It seems the flywheel is the most common thing give a weak spart from talking to others.

Ken
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Re: My Falcon 81

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