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First ride of the year

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First ride of the year

Post  fulmar88 on Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:02 pm

Took the bike out for the first time since November. 26 miles in glorious sunshine and the cool air feeding the lungs of my 10E power plant. I'd forgotten how much fun it was. The bike's so well sorted you just don't want to head home. I must have seen at least 50 other bikes all doing likewise round the lanes, each one with a nod or a wave. Nice folks, us bikers.

Steve
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Re: First ride of the year

Post  bart on Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:08 pm

i have been out today for the first time on my new (to me ) kestrel, and have only missed two weeks without a ride on a motorcycle since we had that lot of bad snow , on either a bantam , a dkw or an unmentionable japanese thing (mostly the bantam ) should be out on the kestrel again tomorrow

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Pride comes before a fall....

Post  fulmar88 on Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:45 pm

As the old saying goes....26 miles on Saturday, 18 miles to work today and 17 home....and then she stops. No warning. I was in traffic for a couple of minutes but it wasn't particularly warm and she just cut-out. No spluttering, just stopped. The engine casings were coolish to touch, definitely not too hot. No amount of kicking gave anything. Changed the plug (which was clean and dry anyway), still nothing. Definitely getting fuel. Then a couple of minutes later she burst back into life....for 3 or 4 seconds and stopped again. No further joy even after walking a mile home. An hour or so later of course she started first kick and revved happily in the garage. This was the first problem since the piston change 400 miles ago, but was nothing like the partial seizures I was suffering then. Any ideas?

Steve.
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Re: First ride of the year

Post  Kelvin_20T on Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:18 am

Steve,

Being a Mini owner, were the points and the condensor ok on the bike?

Similar antics happened with the Mini this week.


Regards, Kelvin
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Cutting out.

Post  fulmar88 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:01 pm

Kelvin, I fitted new points but not condenser. The trouble is that once I lose the confidence that I'll get from A to B I'm reluctant to use the bike for work. Sunday afternoon pleasure rides don't matter so much if you break down but work's different. I'll take the bike out again if it's nice at the weekend and see how she goes.

Steve.
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Re: First ride of the year

Post  Kelvin_20T on Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:03 pm

Steve,

I know what you mean, having had a bit of trouble with the car yesterday it happened again today, it's dampened my enthusiasm to go for a drive. Try a new condensor. If that doesn't solve it then I have no idea, that's the only thing that has gone wrong with my James.

Regards, Kelvin
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first ride of the year

Post  willie wilson on Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:08 pm

hi
have you tried changing the coil, could be breaking down when it starts to get warm , when left a while it will start and run fine again then cut out AGAIN.
best of luck
cheers willie
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Re: First ride of the year

Post  Kelvin_20T on Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:32 pm

I actually agree with Willie as well.

I thought I sorted out the problem with the condensor on the mini, took it out for a drive and it would cough and splutter when I put my foot down. Wasn't the carb, so I'm going to change the coil and ht leads.

Worth a try.

Regards, Kelvin
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And again...

Post  fulmar88 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:03 pm

Hi all, Took the bike out again today to see if would cut-out again. It was fine for about 7 miles then very vaguely lost power momentarily and continued as before. After another mile or so it started to get worse with a couple of coughs and splutters and even a couple of back-fires (in top at about 30 mph). After another rough mile or so it just cut-out. Whilst changing the plug I noticed that there was fuel on the outer surface of the float chamber and the filter in the pipe from the tank was full of fuel which it usually isn't. Whilst the plug was out I kicked it over 20 times or so to clear out the crankcase on the assumption it was flooding. It started with the new plug but stopped again a 1/4 mile later. I repeated the above but left the fuel tap closed. By opening it every so often I managed to get about 5 miles closer home. Eventually it cut-out again as I think I was letting too much fuel in and it was dripping off the back of the float chamber. After this i couldn't get it restarted so for the second time in a week I walked over a mile home.

Tomorrow I wil strip the carb and hope to find some grit holding the needle off its seat. I fitted a new plastic float during the rebuild so I wouldn't expect it to be full of fuel. Can anyone confirm whether the symptoms I have are typical of a flooded engine? In other words will sorting the carb cure the problem or is it likely there's something else wrong?

I have to confess I bought my first ever modern bike on Thursday, a new Honda CBR250R launched in the UK this week. As I said before, for work I need to know i'm going to get there and I fancied treating myself for once. I'll ride the FB for pleasure but at the moment it's not giving any.

Yours very disheartened.
Steve.
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carb problems

Post  piston 197 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:57 pm

Steve ,its a silly point,but check the vent in the petrol cap is not blocked,this can cause a vacuum and give symptoms similiar to your description,unscrewing the cap will release the vacuum and then you can continue,it maybe not this and may well be carb flooding,but it does not seem to sound like it.Usual symptoms of a flooding carb is the same as trying to run with the choke on.JH
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Well...

Post  fulmar88 on Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:19 pm

John, I think the vents ok because it weeps fuel/oil in the garage. Today I stripped, cleaned and replaced the carb. It wasn't particularly dirty inside but I went out for 24 miles and it seemed ok. I'm not sure if its cured or not but it was ok today. I stopped the bike at home afterwards and then tried to re-start it but couldn't. An hour or so later I tried again and eventually got it going after fiddling with the plug cap. It doesn't seem to like hot, or even warm starting unless I've changed the plug (although this doesn't always work). I did wonder if it was a random problem with the HT lead. I'm slightly more heartened but still not confident. I guess only a few more miles will prove it.

Steve.
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HOT STARTING

Post  piston 197 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:43 am

Steve poor hot starting ,or "villiersitus" as it is sometimes called ,is nearly always down to the ignition coil ,or more correctly the HT side of the coil.The permanent cure is to strip all the HT windings off the coil,means cutting the coil and stripping all the fine windings off the coil until you reach the LT windings (thick wire),wrapping back up in insulation tape.Then connecting a 6Volt A.C. ignition coil between the coil and the points.This has several advantages,1. coil now out of the hot engine,2. new modern coil,3.an ignition switch can be put in the line.I have been using a coil from NJB shocks on all of my trials bikes for the last 20 years or so,obviously with a trials bike stopping and starting is essential,with no problems.You can still route the cable to the coil out of the original HT lead outlet,and hide the new coil in the toolbox,JH
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HOT STARTING

Post  bessybarnett on Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:09 am

Good tip John, I will save that to my files for future reference - thanks. Pete

P.S. Sorry to interrupt the dialogue Steve - I hope you get your problems sorted.
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Villiersitus

Post  fulmar88 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:24 pm

John, I'm inclined to agree that its the coil. The first time it stopped I'd done 26 miles the day before and 35 on the day it stopped. It was absolutely fine until the moment it cut-out. I've remembered that I did manage to start it a couple of times the first day it stopped. It fired and flared to 2000 rpm or so and cut-out again probably less than 2 secs after it fired. It wasn't anywhere near idle so must have just lost its sparks. If you, or anyone else, has a diagram or photo I'd appreciate it. I'm slightly unclear as to where everything connects but I'll get out my wiring diagram and have a look.

Thanks for all the help.
Steve.
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Re: First ride of the year

Post  Malfisher on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:38 pm

I rewired my stator a few weeks ago Steve, I took a couple of photos and you can see that the ignition coil runs the HT side right out of the front, to the plug, and the LT side runs from the coil to the side under the lighting coils outputs, and loops out and round to the cb plate. where the lighting coils output runs to the plugs on the top of the stator plate.

All the wiring in the plate was perished and bad, so Ive rewired it all, the lt solders into a tiny ferrule on the side of the ignition coil, you'll see theres new wire coming out. The thing seems to work a lot better now but touch wood i dont get your problem.

I hope these are some use anyway.







Malc
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EXTERNAL COIL

Post  piston 197 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:07 pm

Steve ,there is no wiring as such,your Ignition coil has two leads,1 the plug lead and 2,the lead to the points.The external A.C coil has to be connected to lead 2 anywhere between the coil and the points.You will have lost the plug lead (1) when you strip the HT windings off the coil,the new HT A.C external coil has one wire (the one you connect between your old coil and the points),and the other one is the plug lead,the coil bolts to the frame providing an earth,if you require an on/off switch put it in the line to the new coil.Its a lot simpler than probably my description sounds,but ring me (01989 750731) and i can answer any questions you may have ,JH
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External Coil

Post  fulmar88 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:32 pm

John, Having read your bit above, seen Malc's pictures and looked at my handbook the penny's dropped. I'll gather the bits I need and if I get stuck I'll give you a ring. Thanks again for your (and Malc's) help.

Update: I've just ordered the bits I need so should hopefully get it all together by the weekend.

Steve.
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That's it sorted, hopefully.

Post  fulmar88 on Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:26 pm

Chaps, My new external coil arrived yesterday. I did as JH suggested above and fitted the new coil in the toolbox, out of sight. Whilst eveything was in bits I fitted a new condenser (new points fitted a couple of months back), and took the head off to accurately set the timing which I found was incorrect at 15/64" (should be 11/64"). It all went smoothly and she started 2nd kick. I'm off tomorrow so if the weather's kind I'll go for a run. Obviously I've changed a number of things all at once so will never know for sure what the trouble was but at least it should be sorted. One thing I did notice is that pre-change there was constant sparking at the points. After fitting the new coil (and condenser) there is only occasional sparking across the contacts (new condenser?).

Thanks for the tip John.

Steve.



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condenser

Post  piston 197 on Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:50 pm

Yes Steve,sounds like condenser to me!,at the risk of stating the obvious ,you can with a remote coil attatch the condenser to the coil wire and have it accesible also in the toolbox.This way when changing it you don't have to remove ,kick start and timing cover to get to it and it is removed from the hot area of the engine.JH
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Some piccies

Post  fulmar88 on Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:06 pm

Chaps, I took a load of photos during the fitting of the external coil. I've put a couple below to give the general idea incase anyone else needs to do it (Malc Sad ).


Original Coil stripped of its HT windings


Old Coil replaced in position with new wire connected and out through HT lead hole


On engine with HT lead bits refitted to seal hole in casing


New Coil in toolbox


Full installation

Steve.
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Re: First ride of the year

Post  Malfisher on Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:50 pm

Great stuff Steve nice photos, I hope it works OK for you.

Where does the new wire attach to, I mean the one that goes to the new coil? Is it soldered to the existing LT wire that goes to the points? Or does it come from another point on the coil?

Im pretty clear on all this job needs apart from that one point.

And Im thinking im going to have to do it myself too, better than 40 quid plus for a villiers ignition coil eh!

Malc
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coil installation

Post  piston 197 on Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:57 am

Steve,nice to see you fully understood the process,must mean i managed to describe it so that it could be understood,i have previously tried to explain this mod to people and some of them just didn't get it,glad you posted the photos,so now i can just direct them to this thread and all will be obvious,John H
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LT Wire

Post  fulmar88 on Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:56 am

Malc, The new LT wire is connected to the original LT wire just below the top lighting coil in photo 2. I actually cut the original wire so I could slde some heatshrink over the cable then used a connector to add the extra wire and used the heatshrink to seal it. The worst aspect of the job was removing the HT wires from the old coil. I wasn't sure exactly how deep the layer of HT wires would be so went very carefully down through them. It took a while and cost me a couple of cuts. If you want more info pm me your address and I'll send you a cd of all the photos.

I got my coil from ebay for about 17. The type you need is described as a single wire 6V AC coil. Mine is an aftermarket one for a Yamaha FS1E which has an extra long HT lead. Other than a length of cable and a grommet for one of the new holes in the toolbox, that's all it cost.

JH, If anyone still doesn't get it after seeing this thread tell them to pm me and I'll send the photos to them.

Steve.
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Re: First ride of the year

Post  Malfisher on Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:18 am

You are a gent Steve, I will email you for the photos.

Malc
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And so...

Post  fulmar88 on Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:03 pm

Hi all, Just back from a 24 mile run round the lanes. No issues to report at-all with the engine. Ran smoothly and did all I asked of it. Got home and stopped the engine. Waited a couple of minutes for things to get nice and hot. She started easily first kick. Left it another two minutes, and she started again. So, hopefully that's the end of hot starting trouble and random stopping out on a run.

Of course, just to keep me on my toes, my 12, 500 miles only, chromed exhaust silencer hanging bracket decided it had had enough and fractured during the run (I thought there was a bit more rattling than usual!). So it's off the road again whilst I find a different design to try. Malc, daily transport, I don't think so Laughing unless you're free every evening to fix it.

Steve.
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Re: First ride of the year

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