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New FBOC member with questions...

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New FBOC member with questions...

Post  pplatt on Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:49 pm

Hi,

Having just bought a FB Falcon 58 (1953) I've joined the club (well, the form is in the post anyway) but I already have some questions.

The battery was completely flat when I got the bike so I bought a new one, charged it up and fitted it this evening. However, when I connect the battery to the bike there is a fat spark when touching the 2nd wire to the battery and a click (coming from the flywheel area I think) and the battery starts gassing and is obviously rapidly discharging! There is nothing turned on as far as I can see (no lights on etc - but they all work if turned on) so being an electrical dunce I'm a bit baffled. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what the problem might be? I didn't leave the battery connected for any length of time as I'm sure I would just end up with anther dead battery.

Secondly, does anyone have any recommendations on premix ratios? The book says 16:1 but I've been told that closer to 25:1 is enough for modern oils. The oil that has been suggested is Morris' Classic CM 2T SAE 40 2-stroke. Does this sound OK?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I find my way around this lovely little bike but thanks in advance for any help to get me started.

-Pete P.
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pplatt

Posts : 12
Join date : 2010-09-28

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Flat battery

Post  kerabo on Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:29 am

You need to start a process of elimanation. First have you got the battery the correct way round Most are Pos earth.
remove the rectifer wires if it has one and see if that stops the discgharge. If not remove the termainal block or blocks from the head lamp and ign switches in turn. If with those of you still have a short circuit you must have a fault in the loom. One more thing some stop lamp switches if you have one are not through the ign so could provide a short with nothing else on. You can put a strong bulb( 6v 21w) between the battery and its terminal while you have the short it will glow but once you move or stop the offending wire shorting the bulb will go dim or out .This way you protect the battery.
Maybe some of this wont aply to your bike as its quiet old but if you follow the elimanation process you will solve it.

Regards Ken
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kerabo

Posts : 2454
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 68
Location : Falcon 87..1936 Cruiser 39. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

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Re: New FBOC member with questions...

Post  pplatt on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:25 pm

Ken,

Thanks for your suggestion. I borrowed a continuity tester from work and have spent a bit of time disconnecting the easy to reach bits to see if I can break the short. I didn't have much time to spend but the last connector I broke was in a small black wire (i.e. not HT lead) that disappears into the back of the flywheel case. To double check, I connected the tester to the end of the wire as it comes out of the flywheel and it is definitely connected to earth. This doesn't seem right and if this is a problem, do you have any thoughts on what might be going on under the flywheel cover that could cause this? I didn't get time to get the cover off but I will have a look over the weekend with a bit of luck.

By the way, the bike seems to be on a +ve earth if the color of the wire going from the battery to the frame (red) and the way the old (dead) battery was connected are anything to go on. Also, the bike does have a rectifier (which appears to be insulated from the frame) and there isthe option of running the lights on 'direct' via the big switch on the headlight cowl. It doesn't seem to have the ac/dc switch mentioned in some of the wiring diagrams I have so I would guess its a late M2232D DC/AC lighting set.

On the whole the wiring looks to be very neat and in good condition and has been installed relativity recently.

Any suggestions most welcome!

Thanks again,

Pete P.
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pplatt

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Wiring

Post  kerabo on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:41 pm

The problem with a continuity tester is they are too sensetive. Your coils inside the flywheel are earthed at one end and using this tester you are just measuring the wire through to its earth so it will show a short.. Your best bet it to do as I sugested and put a good bulb between the battery and its terminal. This will glow strong while you have a short curcuit. Follow the loom along and disconect things in turn until the light goes out. Just pull of the wiring block connectors first. The the engine wiring and the rectifier..

The Pos will be the + from the battery.
let me know

Ken
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kerabo

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Join date : 2008-02-11
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Location : Falcon 87..1936 Cruiser 39. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

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Will do

Post  pplatt on Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:44 am

OK, thanks - I'll have another crack at it over the weekend. One problem is that there are no block connectors, everything is wired individually so isolating stuff is a bit of a pain (especially in the headlap shell) - hey ho.

By the way, if there is a circuit from the battery leads through the rectifier to ground, would the battery not be expected to drain unless the resistance of the lighting coils is very high? If so, what should the correct resistance be? Also, does this mean that I should expect the battery to discharge gradually when the bike is not in use even when my present fault has been resolved?

Again sorry for the silly questions but I really am a bit a dunce when it comes to stuff electrical!

Cheers,

Pete P.
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pplatt

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Problem

Post  kerabo on Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:00 pm

There will be a diode in the rectifier this lets power only travel in on direction (into the battery)in DC format. You light will be not connected to anything when switched off providing the wires are on correctley. You say its boiling the battery when connected so that puts a very bad short. Could be lighting coils if connected wrong.

Ken
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kerabo

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Location : Falcon 87..1936 Cruiser 39. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

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Rectifier

Post  pplatt on Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:09 pm

Ken,

From a quick poke around this evening it looks like it might indeed be the rectifier that is on the fritz. I'll check my findings tomorrow but in the meantime, are these Westinghouse rectifiers repairable or are there suitable (similar looking) replacements available anywhere?

Cheers,

Pete P.
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pplatt

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Wiring

Post  kerabo on Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:31 pm

Dont mess with thos old units you can get a new solid state one for less than 10.00

You just have to make it rither + or - earth.

Wiring productsSolid state retcfierVehicle Wiring Products0115 9305454

Regards Ken
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kerabo

Posts : 2454
Join date : 2008-02-11
Age : 68
Location : Falcon 87..1936 Cruiser 39. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

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OK thanks

Post  pplatt on Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:49 pm

OK, I'll check out replacements and see if I can decide where to hide it on the bike.

Do you know if the Westinghouse unit is a pure rectifier or if it has a regulator function to. Even if the original didn't act as a regulator would it be a good idea to find a modern rectifier-regulator to give the battery an easier time?

By the way, thanks for all you help it has been invaluable and I've quite enjoyed m first dabble in bike electrics!

-Pete P.
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pplatt

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Rectifier

Post  kerabo on Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:54 pm

The new one on my Falcon87 fitted where the old one came off, they are only small and will be best in an air flow but not in the rain. You wont have a voltage regulator in your old one. Not 100% about your bike without looking at a diagram but mine is controled by a resistor wire. I am told there is a rectifier/regulator combined but have not had dealing with one yet.

Ken
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kerabo

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Join date : 2008-02-11
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Location : Falcon 87..1936 Cruiser 39. Falcon 81 Green Lane bitsa. Sunbeam S8. Honda Deuville.

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New rectifier ordered

Post  pplatt on Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:43 pm

I've ordered a new 6v +ve earth rectifier from Alan Orborne. With a bit of luck I'll be able to wire it up correctly and it will fix the problem.

Thanks for all the help.

-Pete P.
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pplatt

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Fixed

Post  pplatt on Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:03 pm

I finally got around to fitting the new rectifier and all is well. The battery is charging and all the electrics work as they should.
I took this afternoon off work and went for a lovely ride on the little tiddler. sunny

Thanks for all your help.

-Pete P.
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Re: New FBOC member with questions...

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